G: Let’s start by having you introduce yourself. You could say really whatever you think is important for someone to know about you.
My name's Tom or Thomas, depending on if you are friends or family, you know. My pronouns are she/they. I live in Manchester. I'm a bartender by passion but I also do a lot of podcasting, audio, and radio, but I work in a hospitality company by job, which I love. I'm from the south, and I moved to Manchester last year, but I really feel at home here.
G: That's cool. What initially got you into the hospitality business?
So I started seven years ago, in 2015. I was 16, making five pounds an hour. I worked in the old people's home, like a residential care home and I was a domestic assistant there, so I'd do a bit of cleaning, a bit of tea and coffees. I just got to love these residents. I fully loved the stories they had to tell and you know, we'd just chat. I remember it was getting to the point where I couldn't even finish my shift because I was taking so long, getting around to everyone doing the tea and coffees.
Eventually, I just wanted something on the side, a bit of, you know, extra hours, a bit more sociable. Then my friend was like, I'm working at a festival, you should come, you will love it. And I just fully went for it, and loved it, fully loved it.
Then I graduated uni and I got this full-time job at a bar, never done cocktails, never drank cocktails, never made cocktails, then got cocktail trained, and loved it. I was entering competitions and you know, talking to people all the time, it became a life thing.
G: I'm curious, and I know Hollis would probably be curious as well as both of us are from America, about what your childhood was like and how you grew up?
So I was an absolute nightmare of a child. I've got really mild ADHD and I was diagnosed when I was like seven with that and it’s a really strong memory.
I think this story just sums me up. And this is not where the story ends, but this is where the story starts. So I was at sports day in reception year one, so like kindergarten, first grade to you. I was on the field and I was sent off the field because I was being naughty. And I remember sitting in the school office and Mrs. Smith said to me, “Do you not move a muscle. I'm going upstairs to photocopy something.”
And I didn't but I really needed to wee. And I didn't move a muscle, so I sat there in my green tracksuit and I weed myself because she told me Mrs. Smith told me not to move a muscle. And I think that really sums it up.
Like I was a naughty, naughty boy. Obviously, it's funny now because I'm not even a boy but I was quite notoriously badly behaved, right? But I was also very diligent. Like if I was told to do something, I would do it. Don't move a muscle? I would do it. I was so scared of authority.
The only day I was ever good in reception…
G: Wait, sorry, what is reception?
Like kindergarten. I was well behaved for one day and I won the Courtesy Cup. Like if you were kind and courteous, you'd get this award. And I was well behaved one day and I won it. For me, that was a massive deal, my parents were so proud.
G: Do you feel like you were naughty for a reason? It sounds like you were kind of scared of authority, but maybe you were also acting out against it?
I remember I got put in the same tutor group or form group as my best friend from primary school, Cameron. But I essentially got moved groups at the end of the year, and I was sobbing and I was so torn up, you know, and I was saying to everyone, like, ‘Is there anything I can do?’ And no one could do anything. Like they made the decision that I was moved because basically I was badly behaved and whatever. I think that was the point where it went from being a bit mischievous to fuck authority. Like properly, fuck this, fuck you. I'm just gonna do what I want.
I said like every bad decision I made, it's because of this moment I was moved forms. I said, if those people hadn't made those decisions on my behalf, the bad decisions I'd made wouldn't have happened. But you know, it is one of those things. It just happened. But I was furious.
My parents also split when I was young. My dad and I are going on this road trip in the summer and it's quite a big deal for me because like that's where we went the summer that they broke up so that was a really big deal in my childhood, but I was like, you know, early teens but it's still a really big deal.
G: Does any of that play into your creativity? Either how you grew up or your parents, or?
Yeah, I think there are two sides to this.
So I grew up in the countryside, and, I like taking pictures, contrasting manmade and natural things. And then the other side of it growing up and seeing my dad, separately, on his own, photography was something that we did, you know, we would go to places. We'd go on holiday or we'd go on day trips and we'd take pictures and this is something we kind of bonded over, I suppose. You know he mentioned to you the Nikon that he had and said it had a sentimental value. So his sister died when she was my age, 23, and it was her camera. She was a really keen photographer so that's why it's so special to him and that's why he wants to get it fixed. I'm really keen for him to do that. And I've taken pictures with it. I was the last person to use it and it wasn't my fault it broke, it just aged and it's just not aged well. He's always been a photographer and I love taking photos so we always bonded over it. It’s something when we go away together, we do.
G: Kinda switching gears a little bit. When do you feel the most yourself?
Can I give two answers?
G: Sure. Do you have two selves?
No, not necessarily, but I wanna give one that was like really like now and one generally. So I’ve found it quite hard to settle into Manchester. You know, like I've met so many different types of people obviously I've been working nights and stuff. So just now, with the people from work at the festival, in the moment I was fully, like, ‘This is like where I am, this is who I am.’
But generally speaking, when I'm with any of them, I fully feel myself. And since I've known them, I've come out trans and like those people, Grace, Holly, Billy (my ex), those people are home. So I realized as well that you asked wherever I feel myself. That's what I meant when I say at home.
G: Yeah. I got you. I was going to ask, what do you feel and what do you relate to the concept of coming out?
Yeah, I think it's a really personal preference, right? Like it's a right of passage if you want it. I actually didn't wanna have to do that with my friends. I came out to my housemates as trans and I didn't wanna have to come out to my friends from home because they all knew anyway. The hardest thing was updating everybody on my pronouns and stuff.
Like four years ago and I was walking at Pride going like, ‘Oh, do you ever sometimes just forget that you're not a girl?’ I mean, like, come fucking on, come on. Get a grip. And you know, here we are now. *laughs*
Telling my mom was a big deal. I remember talking to this guy Arthur at work probably like three months ago and I was like, ‘I really wanna come out to my mom.’ We were going to see Cabaret. Perfect. The show is full of trans bodies and is an inherently queer and trans show. Right. And Arthur was like ‘Do it. I've not met your mom, but I've heard about her, do it.’
And the day of it, I bottled it. I woke up and I was like, ‘I can’t do it.’ And then he messaged me. He set a reminder for the day to text me, to remind me to talk to my mom.
The message said, ‘Good luck today.’ And I messaged him back, ‘I'm not gonna do it.’ He was like, ‘No, you are.’ I was like, ‘I'm not’ he was like, ‘You are’ and he didn't stop until he talked me into it. Throughout the day I kept hearing him telling me, ‘It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay.’
At the interval of the show, my mom asked, ‘Well, were there trans women in that?’ I just snapped and said, ‘I don't fucking know.’ And, obviously, there were.
We were talking and got to the end and I'm like, ‘The reason I find it's hard to talk about this is because I'm trans.’ And she goes ‘Yeah, and?’
And I texted Arthur and he was like, ‘I'm just so proud of you.’ And I told my mom about Arthur and how he'd like, spurred me on to do it and how I'd completely bottled it, and he got me to do it.
And she wanted to meet him.
He's 19, he's so young. When I first started at the bar, I remember going up to everyone asking ‘Would you wear a pronoun badge?’ and he was like, ‘Well, why would I do that?’ And I explained it to him.
And he was like, ‘I'm just proud of you’ And he's this 19-year-old kid. Like that's what it's about, bringing people with you on the journey and educating people on the way.
G: Last night, you and I were eating pizza in Manchester after the music festival and you said something funny about having to come out to your mom four times. Can you talk to us about that?
Yeah. So the first was at a national trust garden and I said to my mom, ‘Yeah, like I'm thinking of going veggie’ and she was like, ‘Wow, okay, that's a big deal.’
G: So this is the first coming out. Coming out as a vegetarian.
Yeah, then the second coming out, I had this pina colada moisturizer and I said to her, ‘Can you rub this on my back?’And she's like ‘Is this what Billy does for you?’ And I said ‘Yeah’ and she's like, ‘Is that not a bit gay?’ I was like, ‘Yeah,’ and she goes, ‘Are you?’ And I said, ‘Well, I'm Bi, but we are together.’ And she's like, ‘Oh my God, I'm so happy for you. That's so good.’ So that is the second coming out.
Then I go to uni in September, and I'm like, ‘I'm vegan’ and she says ‘Don't fucking kill yourself.’
And here I am like four years later sitting at a bar saying ‘Mom, I’m non-binary.’ and she says, ‘Yeah, and?’ and I'm like, ‘What do you mean?’ and she's like ‘This seems like a really big deal. You have to say it again and mean it. And don't be nervous.’ I'm like, ‘Mom, I'm non-binary.’ She goes, ‘Yeah, obviously.’ And she's like, ‘I don't care. What made you choose me to tell me?’ I was like, ‘Because I wanna wear a fucking dress. I was choosing my outfit to come to Cabaret and I was I wanted to wear a dress, but I can't because you think I'm a fucking dude.’
So that's the four coming outs, the veggie, the bi, the vegan, the trans. And she took the vegan one the worst.
Rapid Fire
G: What is the best piece of advice you have received?
Life moves on. If you haven't thought about it in six months, it doesn't matter.
G: What's one life goal that you're like, I will do this 100% before I die?
Live in New York. That is one thing I’ve always wanted to do. I don't care if I'm like 85, I’ll do it.
G: What is one misconception you think people have about English folks?
Bad teeth? Not everybody has bad teeth. I do but a lot of people have Invisalign, and that sorts them out, but most people don't. British people have okay teeth. Oh and tea. Not everybody likes tea. More people like coffee.
G: What is your favorite thing about yourself?
My hair. I spent a long, long time hating my hair. I used to shave it all off because I hated it. And I started growing out and lockdown and it’s my favorite thing about me, hands down. I've got fucking amazing hair and I deserve to be proud of it.
What is one word to describe yourself?
Curious.
G: Love that. Lastly, where can people find you?
Find me at @tomatoslayers on Twitter, @tomsayers.png on Instagram and my website here.
Tom Sayers on coming out, growing up in England, and finding a home in her friends